Have you ever heard of such a thing........

[admin]

Oh my gosh Patty, you have me busting up! Thanks, sometimes you need a good laugh regarding all of this garbage. I will have to remember that bird cage lining line. Too funny. I completely agree with you about those darn articles. I just don't get how they publish them in the most known and read journals, isn't there a standard out there for reliable, and print worthy research, etc. Hey Rich, you have always been such a resource and so supportive to me, do you happen to know anything about research standards that must be met for publication or are there none???? Like Patty, I wouldn't line a cage either. LOL!

I actually emailed you personally a while back and was hoping to connect regarding some stuff. If you feel comfortable, please drop me a line. I am staying anon due to our current case and feel it is best not to post here, but I really would like to connect. Thanks.

[admin]

My sons nuerologist actually told me that this can happen when the baby gets stuck; the contractions thrust the baby into the mothers pelvic bone and that is how they get hurt. It could NOT have been from the OB in the delivery room, oh no, he did everything he could. Biggest load of crap I have EVER heard. There is NO way that my "contractions" AVULSED almost every nerve in my childs arm from c5 down, including t1. No Way. I can't even believe that "educated" people would even SAY such crap; there is no way they can actually believe that stuff, they have to know it is bogus.

[admin]

Sorry for continuing to post today. I just needed to clarify the person that I was trying to contact regarding gathering some info. regarding trial, etc., was Patty, not Rich. I am just hoping that she received my email. Thanks.

[admin]

But there are moms posting here who say there was no trauma during their birth and no pulling on the head, so how do those babies get injured? I know this makes people angry and I do believe that the majority of permanent, serious brachial plexus injuries are caused by doctor error, but I don't think things are as black and white as people here are saying.
As far as what Karen Hillyer is saying, I read a piece from a symposium which said that in some cases an EMG soon after birth showed that Wallerian degeneration of the nerves had already taken place. In any nerve injury this does not take place until after 10 or so days after the injury, so if it is showing straight away the injury must have occured at least 10 days before the birth. I am sorry I can't find this on the Web now, but honestly I didn't make it up! This was found by a bpi specialist, NOT an ob covering his a**!

[mom_2x_2002]

Thank you for all this wonderful information. I am going to write this lady a letter because she hasn't agreed to call me or meet with me. So I feel its my responsiblity to inform her some how.

[admin]

This article covers everything said so far in this thread such as viral and other congenital causes and concludes that almost every case is physician caused
it's very interesting reading, would be worth giving to these doctors who are claiming avulsions can be cused in utero http://www.shoulderdystocia.com/causes.html

[phaliscak]

What ever this is by this Karen Hillyer doesn't make sense either. How can they prove what they say? Did they do an EMG on a unborn, uninjured child to test this THEORY? I don't think so. How can they compare? They can't. It's sounds to me like they are trying to shift the blame with only theory. Yes, sure there are the 1 in the million cases, but so is spontaneous combustion.

Patty

[phaliscak]

I'm sorry Annon. I don't recall your e-mail. Try again. Maybe this time put down in the "Subject" line that you are from the message board. Normally if I don't recognize an e-mail I don't open it and just delete it right away. Sorry.

Patty

[Karrie in MD.]

Yeah...doctors and lawyers will try to use this defense to protect their butts. I was also told this during Kyle's trial too, but during his sonograms when I was pregnant, both arms were moving all over the place. Then during the delivery he gets stuck, doctor pulls on head and what do you know.....left arm has no movement. Caused in utero...that's just a bunch of bull***t to cover their behinds.

[Karen Hillyer]

Patty
This is not my theory-
it was a presentation by a BPI specialist to other BPI specialists at an international symposia of BPI specialists, which showed that he had performed EMG studies on children presenting with brachial plexus injuries who were 10 days old or less.
Those children who had an injury thought to be caused by a traction injury presented significantly different results from those children who presented with a "congenital" or in-utero lesion.
Children who suffer an in-utero lesion (and there are a FEW of them) also present with different characteristics to those children who suffer a traction injury - for example the arm may already have significant muscle wastage and be shorter than the unaffected arm.
This was NOT an attempt by OBSTETRICIANS to deflect the cause of injury this was a study by BRACHIAL PLEXUS SPECIALIST to show HOW to determine a traction injury from an In-utero lesion.
This type of study can only help further the cause of the BPI community, by showing that the two groups of children have different characteristics of injury this can then help other clinicians to determine exacty WHICH type of lesion a child may have.
Thus proving whether a child has been injured at birth or not.
we all know that the majority of children will have been injured during the birth process, but in order to prove it, we are going to have to accept that there are SOME children who have a Brachial Plexus Lesion for OTHER reasons.
Often with these types of studies, it is important to read them and digest the information before leaping to conclusions.