The true source of high health insurance costs...

[Ben's Dad]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01149.html

My favorite part of this article is:

"Don't be distracted by arguments that American doctors need to make more because they have to pay $20 billion a year in malpractice insurance premiums forced on them by a hostile legal system, or an equal amount for all the paperwork required by our private insurance system. The $58 billion in what the study defines as excess physician income is calculated after those expenses are paid."

[Matt's Dad]

I don't blame the doctors.
Blame capitalism.

I wouldn't want it any other way.
The thought of a universal healthcare system scares the heck out of me.

[Ben's Dad]

Hi Matt's Dad,
My gripe is that when the AMA calls medical liability reform it's top legislative issue and declares certain states in crisis and doctors protest at their state capitals saying that there should be caps on recovery, tort reform, etc. and put the blame for higher malpractice rates on the legal system...they are not telling the whole truth and they further a misconception that the problem lies with people who sue doctors.

Doctors don't police their own kind, they'd prefer to just look the other way. From what I can tell, they don't protest their insurance companies for fair rates. Their insurance companies raise rates across the board. While a majority of doctors have no claims against them, the carrier raises rates for all doctors. But instead of taking issue with that, doctors call it a crisis and call out for tort reform.

By the way, doctors in New Jersey protested on Trenton in 2002...http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9649C8B63

[claudia]

I agree whole-heartedly, Ben's dad. The AMA screwed themselves when they got into bed with the HMOs and now have to sleep in it. Unfortunately, they can't admit that and we pay the price.

It further bugs me that the President would mention tort reform in his State of the Union address.

A national health plan is not a bad thing, as long as it is planned and managed carefully. We have some long-standing national health plans to learn from.

If you think there is a "blue wall of silence"... that is NOTHING compared with the 'white jackets of silence".

claudia

[Ben's Dad]

Thanks claudia,
The sad truth is people actually believed him (the president) when he talked about tort reform. Just another one of his mis-truths to the American public.

I totally agree about the "white jackets of silence".

I get better auto insurance rates because I am a "good driver", would it be fair to me to make me pay exhorbitant rates because the guy driving next to me has had 5 accidents..no way. Meanwhile, malpractice carriers make ALL doctors pay higher rates for the ones with multiple claims...and the doctors do nothing about it except call out for tort reform. The hypocrisy makes me sick.

[jennyb]

That seems insane. Doctors here where I live (New Zealand) are starting to get concerned, we used to be a non litigious society and now people are starting to sue over medical errors-not too many as our government pays anyone injured compensation, regardless of fault. Doctors don't like it one bit, especially as it's not the compensation so much as the disciplinary action that hurts them-don't doctors get 'struck off' in the US if they keep making mistakes? They should be.....But I do believe doctors who make the most errors should pay the highest rates, seems obvious.
As far as universal systems go I truly miss the British NHS since I emigrated and am grateful for the world class treatment bpi get there free of charge as a right. I have spoken to so many tbpi from the US over the years who have no insurance, not always through their own fault, and have no access to any doctor at all or even to pain killing drugs. That to me is shocking in a first world country, and there are 47 million people in that situation. Kids can access care through Shriners which is fantastic, adults can't.
We have what is called a universal system here in NZ too but it isn't properly funded and I am concerned about growing old here, to the extent where I have considered returning to the UK when I'm older. I want am amputation but I am too far down the waiting list to ever reach the top. In the UK I would have waited around 3 months for an amputation which seems reasonable to me. Universal systems do need to be adequately funded to work properly.
By the way, where I come from, a mis-truth is called a lie

[Ben's Dad]

You got me jenny..you're right, a mis-truth is a lie here too. Our President is full of them.
I am curious how your system works, who determines who and how much someone that is injured gets?
In answer to your question, the doctors here only get "struck off" if their state medical board take their license to practice away from them. And even those will sometimes go and apply to practice in a different state.

Here's another kick in the head...the US government keeps a database of what doctors have claims, settlements, payouts, malpractice awards, etc... but does not allow the public to have access to the information. So, if you are "lucky" enough to get one of those doctors who goes from state to state and had multiple actions against him/her, chances are you'd have no way to find out about it.

You are absolutely right and I agree 100% that "doctors who make the most errors should pay the highest rates", but that's not the way they do it here.

Our health care system needs a great deal of reform...but the insurance companies and medical associations have too much influence in Washington and nothing gets done. I hope that starts to change real soon.

[jennyb]

Hi Ben's Dad
Our NZ compensation system is called ACC and seeks to provide compensation for people who get any accidental injury, including occupational injuries such as carpal tunnel. You visit your gp and he/she examines your injury and fills in and signs a claim form for you, and refers you to specialists for further treatment (free) if necessary. You can get a compensatory payout in some cases (not huge, max probably up to around NZ$100,000) including in cases where noone else was involved and your salary/wages are paid up to 80% for as long as you can't work. The premiums are paid by all road users when they pay their annual vehicle tax, with loading for more 'dangerous' vehicles such as motorcycles (don't start me on why that's wrong.... ) and by all employers on behalf of their staff. There are many flaws to the system, not least being people like me who got their injury elsewhere, people who get significant injury thru illness such as MS rather than thru accident and the fact that altho the 'no blame' scenario is a nice idea, in practice those responsible for causing injuries are not paying through they own insurance for injuries they cause-we are all paying collectively. I don't believe that encourages carefulness, either in healthcare or driving-this is one of the only first world countries where individual third party insurance is not required to drive any vehicle. We therefore have one of the worst road accident statistics in the OECD, but on the other hand everyone who gets injured gets 80% of their salary paid and treated free. They just might have to wait a while if they aren't too bad....
That's a very simple view of our system and may be wrong in some areas, I'm still feeling my way around. Like all bureaucratic systems it's full of exceptions, oddities and loopholes. My brother in laws girlfriend doesn't work because she 'hurt her elbow', she gets 80% of her salary paid. I can't help noticing that she manages to go surfing etc and of course she's pretty embarrassed when she sees me doing things with no right arm when she seems helpless because her elbow hurts a bit.....grrrr!

I'm always interested when I watch stuff like ER, nobody there seems to pay, do they get a bill later? What if they can't pay and treatment's already been carried out? Or is emergency treatment free? If you get taken to ER with a tbpi and they patch you up but you have no money/insurance do they just say, "Bye, sorry about the arm, take some Tylenol and buy an electric tin opener and forget being a trapeze artiste" ?

I don't think any system's ideal and with all of us living longer all systems are getting more and more under pressure. IMO Doctors have to be seen to be caring more about their patients than their wallerts, I always thought it was a vocation, not a means of getting rich. Hippocrates said "First, do no harm" he did not say "If they have no cash, let em suffer" or "If you mess up, lie, run away, then blame everyone else for the expenses your error causes individuals & the country". The fact that OBPI is preventable makes me very angry even tho I'm tbpi.
OK, off soap box. Thanks for the discussion.

[Ben's Dad]

That is very interesting how the system works in NZ.

Sounds like your brother in law's girlfriend is "milking the system" as they say. She better watch out that nobody catches her surfing on video tape.

Shows like ER, CSI and the like never tell it like it really is. I think what happens is if you are indigent the government ends up paying the bill through the Medicaid program. If you have some money or property and no insurance, better watch out...medical bills are one of the primary reasons people declare bankruptcy in the US.
There is a big push to get all children covered and some states have programs in place...a step in the right direction but far from being fixed.

I love your statement..."If you mess up, lie, run away, then blame everyone else for the expenses your error causes individuals & the country". You got it right about OBPI's from a TBPI!!! Thank you for the discussion.

[Matt's Dad]

"If you have some money or property and no insurance, better watchout...medical bills are one of the primary reasons people declare bankruptcy in the US."

Ben, can you get me a link that proves that statement?

Back to the original topic -

Are you for or against tort reform?


Message was edited by: Matt's Dad