United Brachial Plexus Network, Inc.

My personal goal for this year was to work hard at educating women in their childbearing years so that they would understand shoulder dystocia and the risk factors, etc.

So I have been visiting the parentsplace boards. It's the VBAC board that REALLY gets to me. A women comes on and says - tell me why I shouldn't VBAC - I had shoulder dystocia with my first birth and c-section for my second and now I want to VBAC - any reasons why not to? and the answers are - no reasons why you can't. If you want to just do it. I start reading and there are dozens of posts like this. I am sitting here and just shaking my head. This one woman says that she doesn't care who tells her what to do, she's going to do it because she's going to be as strong as a brick and fight everone to get it - but yea she has a shoulder dystocia history. I want to tell her - hey brick lady - throw a brick on your head and wise up!

I want to educate women but I don't think I can. How do you educate a women who is as closeminded as a brick and has a cheering squad behind her.

This one woman says that her doctor is against VBAC and he gave her all the risks. And the cheering squad - "it's obvious that your doctor is uninformed." UNINFORMED????? I say BRAVO to the doctor for at least telling her. Nobody told me I was at risk!

I can't talk to these people. It's making me very angry. I need to step aside from this.

[taking a deep breath]

-francine

I didn't know you had a VBAC. You can only inform as to the risks-there are risks with csection too. It is possible to have a VBAC even with a history of SD-I know someone who did-for the first time she gave birth on all fours (rather than lying down), refused induction and epidural and fetal monitoring and hey presto, a baby bigger than her previous 2 was born with no problems. By all means inform these women about the risk factors but there really is no reason why someone shouldn't consider a VBAC after a prior SD birth with a good OB or midwife. I'm not saying you are wrong to worry Francine, it's understandable-but these women are not wrong either. Informed choice is the key and people do get rather defensive about their own choices, especially in childbirth. Peace.

Hi, Francine! Calm down.Remember you can't save the world and realize you are working toward a goal that can't be met in seconds. In the meantime, why not reply anonymously and leave a link in your message to your website and to a post on this site. Sneak, Sneak. LOL Now to tease, Super Francine to the rescue!!! As much as you'd like to tie the woman's tubes, it's not your life. Keep your sanity. Trying for humor and encouragement, LeeAnne

Lee Anne - I slept on it and I am now definite in my decision. I am finally FINALLY just beginning to heal from this ordeal and this is just not something I can do. I'm going to stick to UBPN Awareness for now. Maybe in time when I'm older and all grown up I'll be able to diplomatically handle this mindset. But not now. I'm going to let it go and give those women and their babies to God's will.

[whew][big sigh]
moving forward,

francine

Francine, I wanted to post anonymously to this topic only because we plan to pursue legal action. My son has a ROBPI and I was a VBAC. I was SOOOO on the fence about whether to do a VBAC or schedule my 2nd c-section. I did all the research I could and read a lot on the VBAC web sites. I realized the sites were one-sided, but I still thought it was safe for me to do a VBAC. These sites and my doctor only warned me about the risks for uterine rupture (and from what I read, the majority of ruptures are not catastrophic and doctors are still able to get the baby out safely). NO ONE WARNED ME ABOUT SHOULDER DYSTOCIA!! And I knew I was having a big baby (ended up 9 and 1/2 pounds). They just told me a big baby adds a slight risk to the uterine rupture, but NOT A WORD about the added risk of shoulder dystocia! Had I known that I had ADDITIONAL risks, the decision would have been a lot clearer for me to schedule the c-section. So, even though you say you're going to give up trying to educate on the VBAC sites, maybe keep trying when you're up for it. Someone like you could have influenced someone like me when I was resarching the topic. I may do that myself in the future, but right now it's too early for me. My son is only 2 and 1/2 months and I can only handle so much at once! Every day I blame myself and get upset for not chosing that option (even though I wasn't aware of SD and I made the best decision at the time). It still hurts. Thanks for listening!

It is very frustrating and sounds pretty emotionally overwhelming! I think it was a great idea you had and maybe someday you can try again. Glad you realized that now isn't the time and that you have to take care of yourself and your sanity. You only have so much energy to go around, so might as well use it where you are most productive. Passing on information and your site link is really all you could do any ways, since in the end the mothers will make their own decision regardless of what we tell them.

Maybe this will make you feel a little better, our hospital recently banned all VBAC births because of the high risk involved. As you can imagine, it is a little controversial. I am sure it was just for liability to save their behinds, but hey, it will also be helping a few babies along the way. And personally I am psyched about it, because the midwife that injured my baby was so upset about the whole thing and how it totally went against her personal philosophies, etc. she decided to no longer deliver babies and went into family planning instead. Thank God!!!!!!! One down, just thousands more to go. Sorry for being so facetious, but for those that aren't willing to acknowledge or take any responsiblity for what they did, and for those who don't go on to learn the skills needed, then that is how I feel.

Francine

I understand your frustration...
I spoke to a PT the other day... while giving my talk to her about how many are injured... She assured me that 85% recover... with out any problem and that there are only a few of us who are badly injured...

I want to jump up and down and scream!!! Hey guys if you don't count you don't know...

I assured her that since no one is counting the statistics are bogus... No one knows for sure how many babies are injured and no one knows what the results of those unreported injuries...

Take it one step at a time... and "let go -- let God"

Kath

This is such an interesting discussion.
I had my first 2 babies c-section (#1-breech, didn't even attempt labor; #2-attempted a vbac, but didn't work out-he was 9lb 8 oz.). I then had 2 more babies vaginally. One was 7lb 12 oz (2 weeks early). One was 9 lb 1 oz. Everything went fine, no problems.
My 5th baby was my BPI baby. He was 10 lb. 9 oz.
The ironic thing is that even if the doctor suggested that I have a c-section I don't think I would have agreed. I was so sure that a vaginal birth was better and I should at least try. Knowing what I do now I wish I would have considered a c-section. There were very obvious signs that this was a big baby.

I don't know what the answer is. I guess just trying to make sure that the risks are explained. No one ever told me that a large baby had a greater risk of injury. I don't think that very many people are told that. I know how frustrating that is. I have sisters and sister-in-law's in child-bearing years and they were never told anything about the risks. They both have had large babies.

Anyway I guess we just do what we can and try not to let it get to us too much.
Francine, thanks for all your work and words of support. I don't know what I would do without all of the information and support on this board.

Thanks,
Connie

Boy Francine, I feel your frustration (I also feel that way when I read people posting about home deliveries as a good way to go if you've had a healthy pregnancy. Mine was a VERY healthy pregnancy and guess what..my baby would have DIED had I delivered her at home..but I digress.)

It is such a delicate thing - I have one friend who was being monitored for a probable large baby, a sister-in-law who is high risk for large babies (her first was 7.5 lbs ONE MONTH EARLY!!), and her sister - with GD, also at risk for a large baby. All were AGAINST a c-section. They didn't even want to hear my advice, etc. even though they know what happened to me...I'm just a statistic and this would NEVER happen to them. I think I've been labeled an extremist by them, or the hen who keeps crying "the sky is falling.."

So I don't try to change people's minds or anything. I try to help empower them. I try to just lay out some information that they may not know so that they can make up there own minds. I encourage them to really think through their birth plan and have them start considering what they would do if the Dr. wants to use forceps or vacuum - (do they want that? If so, how long will they let it go?), I encourage them to include a contigency plan in their birth plan...if the 2nd stage goes over 2 hours, what are you going to do...etc.) I just try to help them think through a lot of the delivery red flags and come up with a game plan for those BEFORE they are blind-sided by them in the delivery room.

My friend did just that, and at 2 hours demanded to switch gears to a c-section. After, the dr. told her that with her pelvic shape there was no way she would have ever delivered her baby vaginally.

One save at a time...

So I write a final post...and this is the response I got....

This is a vbac board not a shoulder dystocia board...not sure if I missed something...

about why you would be saying all of this stuff about shoulder dystocia but c/s is not the answer to shoulder dystocia anyway...